Sójové isoflanovoidy ako náhrada Clostilbegytu

soldi
1. dec 2010

rozhodla som sa zalozit tuto temu, aj ked neviem, ci najdem odozvu 🙂 , na pomoc vsetkym snazilkam, ktore do seba nechcu pchat umele hormony. na to, ze soja sa da pouzivat ako prirodny clostil prisla @elllla na zahranicnych forach. mnohym dievcatam pomohla otehotniet, su to vlastne prirodne estrogeny. tak ak niekto chcete, napiste a ja a mozno pride aj elka, sa s vami podelime o nase skusenosti 😵

soldi
autor
1. dec 2010

aby som k tomu napisala nieco blizsie. konkretne sa jedna o tie sojove isoflanovoidy (cesky izoflavony), ktore sa nachadzaju napr. v tejto soji: http://www.mojalekaren.sk/fytosoja-forte-60cps/

na sr patri medzi najlacnejsie. jedna tabletka obsahuje 25 mg isoflanovoidov. 100 mg iso... zodpoveda 50 mg clostilu, cize jednej tabletke. sposob davkovania je podobny ako pri clostile, berie sa bud 3-7 dc, alebo 4- 8, alebo 6-9 dc.

vyhodou oproti clostilu je, ze su to prirodne estrogeny- clostil je anabolicke steroidum, ktore sa moze brat maximalne 6 krat za zivot. soja narozdiel od clostilu neznizuje vystelku maternice a naopak podporuje napr. plodny hlien, ktory je taky dolezity pre zivotnost spermiii a ich cestu k vajicku.

proste soja ma podobny efekt ako clostil, ale funguje na inych principoch 🙂

ha ha, sa citim ako reklamny agent 😀

ked elka priniesla tuto novinku do nasej temy, viacero kociek sa jej chytilo. este nie su vsetky tehotne, ale velkej vacsine sa krasne upravil cyklus. existuju aj sojove statistiky, ktore dokazuju, ze vacsina zien otehotnie do troch cyklov od zaciatku bratia soje (ak pravda nie je problem napr. v nepriechodnych vajcovodoch, ci velmi zlom spg).

tu je par grafov kociek z nasej temy, ktore su tehotne aj vdaka soji 😵

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/3041e9
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2c1272
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/N
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/soldi
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/elkatelka

cele toto pisem kvoli tomu, ze u nas na sr je to malo zname a pri tom to moze tolkym kockam pomoct 😵

elllla
1. dec 2010

dakujem soldi!!!
este na upresnenie - prisla som na to vdaka FF strankam, kde mam rocne VIP clenstvo a tym padom pristup k diskusnemu foru.. nasla som par zaujimavych prirodnych tipov a ked som si povedala, ze vyskusam vsetko, tak som studovala viac info a o poznatky som sa delila so spolusnazitelkami..
ja som otehu na treti cyklus brania soje, to sme sa snazili o mimi uz rok a pol, mala som za sebou 3-mesacnu liecbu clostilom / pregnylom a bez uspechu.. az do augusta..

k dalsim tipom napriklad - grepovy dzus pred ovulkou napomaha plodnemu hleiniku (pije sa 0.3-0.5 litra denne pocas cca 5 dni pred ovu)

na podporu uhniezdenia som objavila ananasovy tip - 1-2DPO zacat bud uzivat pocas 5 dni bromelain v tabletach (300-500 mg 2x denne) alebo si kupit ananas a ten stred (tvrdy) nevyhodit, ale rozdelit na 5 casti a kazdy den jednu cast zjest od 1-2 DPO.. nemalo by sa to pred ovulkou, lebo posobi vysusujuco na hlienik..

yasminne
1. dec 2010

@soldi
@elllla
ahojte zaujalo ma co tu pisete o soji. Ja i moj manzel sme uz dlhe roky vegetariani a teda soja je u nas denno denne v strave prijimana kedze ja som vylucila i laktozu a "mliecne produkty z kravskeho mlieka" som nahradila sojovymi alebo kozimi a ovcimi. Obaja sme zdravotne OK a uz su to dva roky snazenia...
Prave vcera sme zacali pripravu na inseminaciu, zijem v zahranici a tu nam naordinovali stimulaciu injekcne Menopur vraj s tym maju lepsie vysledky. Uz som vyskusala cez bylinky, caje, cinskeho liecita takmer vselico este sa chystam na akupunkturu lebo to ma dobre ohlasy, no to ze soja moze byt az takto uzitocna som netusila. Pozriem si blizsie o tom preparate co tu uvadzate a uvidime ako to dopadne tento mesiac 🙂 .
Tiez som na FF ale tuto info som nezachytila mozno preto ze nemam VIP...
vdaka za info ten ananas znie srandovne ale preco nie 🙂

soldi
autor
1. dec 2010

@yasminne ahoj, som rada, ze sme Ta zaujali. 🙂

co som citala, tak u vas moze byt problem prave nadbytok soje. soja v plodnych dnoch zeny sposobuje nepriaznivo na plodny hlien a tiez posobi nepriaznivo na spermie. tak mozno je u vas problem u tam 😕

soldi
autor
1. dec 2010

@yasminne
tu je o tom aj clanok

http://gnosis9.net/view.php?cisloclanku=2005060025

my sme ju uzovali viac menej pocas ms, vtedy to nevadi, ale v plodnych dnoch by sa praveze nemala.

jarunka111
1. dec 2010

@soldi práve som sa na to chcela opýtať, lebo som niekde čítala, ak chcete otehotnieť, tak treba tú sóju vynechať/zredukovať, lebo to potom nemusí ísť tak ako by sme chceli, tak si mi to aj hneď potvrdila 🙂

soldi
autor
1. dec 2010

@jarunka111 no, vsetkeho vela skodi 🙂

ale ak sa uziva tak, ako som napisala v prvom prispevku tam naopak pomaha 😉

jarunka111
1. dec 2010

@soldi jasné, treba nájsť správnu mieru 😉

acko
1. dec 2010

ja podporim soldi a ellllu - bola som u doktora, ktory sa venuje aj tradicnej cinskej medicine a bylinkam. sam od seba mi povedal, ze pri problemoch s otehotnenim odporuca brat isoflavonoidy. (soldi uz davno som to chcela v nasej teme spomenut, ale uplne som na to zabudla. 😔 )

takze naozaj, nie je to len vymysel nejakej snazilky, ktorej to nahodou zabralo, ale o tychto efektoch vedia aj lekari venujuci sa alternativnej medicine.

@yasminne ako hovori soldi, konzumovat denne vyslovene sojove produkty mozu byt podla niektorych zdrojov skodlive pre niektore organy a procesy v tele (stitna zlaza), prave kvoli obsahu estrogenov. ale to uz je na inu debatu... lebo soja ma samozrejme aj mnozstvo pozitiv. treba si poguuglit - nahod si slova soya, feritility, effects... kuk napriklad sem: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4115506.stm
v zasade - vsetkeho vela skodi...

zmysel uzivania soje na podporu otehotnenia tkvie v tom, ze cielene sa uziva len par dni na podporu rastu folikulov.
a ja osobne si tiez verim, ze nieco na tom bude, lebo otehotniet sa podarilo kockam, ktore sa o to snazili v niektorych pripadoch aj vyse roka...
samozrejme, nebolo by na skodu, aby zena najprv vedela, ci ma v poriadku hormonalny profil, mozno aj mala za sebou par ultrazvukov (folikulometrie), lebo mozu byt pripady, ked sa clostyl (a teda aj jeho prirodna alternativa - isoflavonoidy) vyslovene neodporuca (napriklad ak je zena nachylna na tvorbu cyst)...

yasminne
1. dec 2010

@acko no to ste ma teda zaskocili 😀 ...citam, citam a veru som prekvapena...nikdy ma ani nenapadlo, ze soya moze posobit negativne spermie... no vsak zase prehanat to neprehaname jeme dost striedmo, ale asi si budeme trosku davat pozor hlavne pred ovulkou a v druhej polovici cyklu aby to bolo viac vyvazene. No co sa tu clovek vselico nedozvie 😉 spytam sa na to mojho liecitela tiez sa venuje tradicnej cinskej medicine. Ty kde chodis k liecitelovi, nie nahodou BA v Karlovke? Ja som ho len nedavno objavila na nete iny kontakt som nenasla a tak som to skusila...no o soji nepadla ziadna zmienka...
No ako som uz pisala obaja sme OK aj HP aj testy na stitnu zlazu a manzel ma vyborny spermiogram...

nemko
1. dec 2010

kocky velmi ma vasa tema zaujala.idem na IUIa skusim ten tip s ananasom a grepovym dzusom 😉 dakujem 😉

acko
1. dec 2010

@yasminne liecitela v BA v Karlovke nepoznam. ale tiez som sa uz rozpravala na tuto temu s mnohymi liecitelmi, a az tento pan doktor mi to spomenul. 😉

yasminne
1. dec 2010

@acko a vies mi poskytnut kontakt a nejake blizsie info o nom? je to lekar co sa venuje tradicnej cinskej medicine alebo len liecitel ?? bo ten moj nie je lekar...no to co mi povedal mi davalo zmysel a beriem nejake bylinkove cinske lieky proti stresu a napatiu ...a i.

soldi
autor
1. dec 2010

@nemko sme radi, ze Ta zaujala, mozno casom s elllou pridame este viac vselijakych vychytavok 🙂

ak mate zly spg tak aj na ten mame recept 🙂

a drzim palce na iui 😵

soldi
autor
1. dec 2010

@yasminne urcite by stalo za pokus vyskusat obmedzit soju v plodnych dnoch 🙂

spermiogram sa stale meni, takze na to by som sa nespoliehala a predsa len absolvovala tuto prevenciu 🙂

kedze ste obaja inac v poriadku, urcite by stalo za pokus to vyskusat 🙂

markiza
1. dec 2010

Ella, tento clanok vyzera ako od teba 😵

Soy Isoflavones - The Natural Clomid?
I have been doing some research on Soy lately as I have been contemplating trying it to see if I see any changes.

Up until now I have avoided soy as I had heard it may impact fertility, but interestingly I'm now finding a lot of conflicting reports and some that say that soy is actually HELPING women fall pregnant.

I found this interesting article (reprinted from TwoWeekWait) which had this to say about Soy Isoflavones.

"TTC Trend Watch ~ Oh Joy! Another Soy BFP!

If you've been surfing TTC boards online recently, you've probably run across several posts from women proclaiming the mighty power of "Soy Isoflavones." If not, you are probably thinking "Soy Isowhat?" Yes, my TTC friends, the underpriviledged step sister to the infamous Clomid pill has made her big stage debut... and she's garnering some impressive reviews. But before you stop reading the rest of this article and burn rubber to the nearest vitamin store, let me encourage you to research it for yourself before trying any new supplement regimen. (And as always, you should consult your doctor trying anything new.) But I digress...

"Soy Isoflavones" is a natural plant derived phytoestrogen (phyto means plant), which is an anti-estrogen, just like Clomid. Both are known as SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators). It works by fooling your brain into thinking its estrogen levels are low. This causes your body to reslease more FSH & LH which helps stimulate follicle production (same as Clomid). You take Soy Isoflavones, like Clomid, on CD 1-5 or 2-6, or 3-7 or 5-9. It is not thought to cause infertility if it is only taken for 5 days a month. There is not much published information available on it regarding TTC, because it is "natural", not patented by the pharmaceutical companies, and not FDA approved. Most doctors will also not recommend it for this reason.

Recently, many women on FertilityFriend.com have been taking 150-160mg a day for 5 days at the beginning of the menstrual cycle (on days previously mentioned). Side effects reported are similar to Clomid. These vary from increased number of headaches to hot flashes. It has been suggested that taking the dosage before bedtime lessens the side effects.

I was doing some research on FertilityFriend.com to uncover just how many girls have recently conceived while on Soy Isoflavones and what days they took the supplement. I found a girl who took it on CD 1-5, 200mg Soy Isoflavones, and she got a strong BFP at 15dpo that cycle. Her chart can be viewed here. Her HCG levels at 15dpo were 443 and at 18dpo HCG 1,347. Impressive. I found a survey on FF that was interesting as well:

What was interesting is that 75% of the women who tried Soy Isoflavones got a BFP in their FIRST cycle trying. I checked the survey more recently and the number has jumped to 77% since I took the screenshot.

While Soy Isoflavones can help bring on an earlier or stronger Ovulation for these women, I must note that in some women it did not help at all. Just like Clomid doesn't always work for everyone. Right now there are a lot more women trying Soy Isoflavones so I will continue to monitor their progress and report back any news I find.


markiza
1. dec 2010

TTC Trend Watch ~ Oh Joy! Another Soy BFP!

If you've been surfing TTC boards online recently, you've probably run across several posts from women proclaiming the mighty power of "Soy Isoflavones." If not, you are probably thinking "Soy Isowhat?" Yes, my TTC friends, the underpriviledged step sister to the infamous Clomid pill has made her big stage debut... and she's garnering some impressive reviews. But before you stop reading the rest of this article and burn rubber to the nearest vitamin store, let me encourage you to research it for yourself before trying any new supplement regimen. (And as always, you should consult your doctor trying anything new.) But I digress...

"Soy Isoflavones" is a natural plant derived phytoestrogen (phyto means plant), which is an anti-estrogen, just like Clomid. Both are known as SERMs (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators). It works by fooling your brain into thinking its estrogen levels are low. This causes your body to reslease more FSH & LH which helps stimulate follicle production (same as Clomid). You take Soy Isoflavones, like Clomid, on CD 1-5 or 2-6, or 3-7 or 5-9. It is not thought to cause infertility if it is only taken for 5 days a month. There is not much published information available on it regarding TTC, because it is "natural", not patented by the pharmaceutical companies, and not FDA approved. Most doctors will also not recommend it for this reason.

Recently, many women on FertilityFriend.com have been taking 150-160mg a day for 5 days at the beginning of the menstrual cycle (on days previously mentioned). Side effects reported are similar to Clomid. These vary from increased number of headaches to hot flashes. It has been suggested that taking the dosage before bedtime lessens the side effects.

I was doing some research on FertilityFriend.com to uncover just how many girls have recently conceived while on Soy Isoflavones and what days they took the supplement. I found a girl who took it on CD 1-5, 200mg Soy Isoflavones, and she got a strong BFP at 15dpo that cycle. Her chart can be viewed here. Her HCG levels at 15dpo were 443 and at 18dpo HCG 1,347. Impressive. I found a survey on FF that was interesting as well:

What was interesting is that 75% of the women who tried Soy Isoflavones got a BFP in their FIRST cycle trying. I checked the survey more recently and the number has jumped to 77% since I took the screenshot.

While Soy Isoflavones can help bring on an earlier or stronger Ovulation for these women, I must note that in some women it did not help at all. Just like Clomid doesn't always work for everyone. Right now there are a lot more women trying Soy Isoflavones so I will continue to monitor their progress and report back any news I find.

You can buy a bottle of Soy Isoflavones at any health food store or even Wal-mart. At Wal-mart, it costs under $7 USD for one bottle. Pretty affordable, huh?

Elle's Disclaimer: I am not personally recommending that anyone try Soy Isoflavones. Please, please consult your doctor before trying Soy Isoflavones. Research it for yourself and make an educated informed decision. Recently I've discovered an article warning about the danger of taking too much Soy in the diet. Click here to read the article. If you do decide to try Soy Isoflavones, please email me and let me know how it worked for you.

markiza
1. dec 2010

Soy Isoflavones: Natural Alternative to Clomid

If you are trying to get pregnant, you may be wondering if there are any natural ways to induce ovulation or boost your fertility. While there may not be any supplements out there that are specifically marketed as Clomid substitutes, some people believe that soy isoflavones may be just that.

How Clomid works
To understand how soy isoflavones are similar to Clomid, it is helpful to understand how Clomid works. Clomid is not estrogen but it has a similar structure to estrogen. Clomid binds to the estrogen receptor cells in the hypothalamus and blocks them. With the estrogen receptor cells blocked, your brain doesn’t get the signal from the estrogen.

Now you really do not have low levels of estrogen, your body just thinks you do. Why is this important? Estrogen is released from your follicles as they mature. If your follicles are not mature you can’t ovulate. So, what Clomid does when it blocks your estrogen receptors is confuse your body into thinking you need more FSH.
GNRH stimulates the production of FSH. When estrogen levels are low, GNRH production picks up. GNRH stimulates FSH and FSH stimulates your follicles. Then as your follicles mature they release estrogen. Once estrogen reaches a certain point, your body will release another hormone called LH which triggers ovulation.

Since FSH is the hormone that causes your follicles to grow and mature, if Clomid can confuse your body into producing more FSH, it will hopefully induce or improve ovulation.

What makes soy isoflavones similar to Clomid
Soy isoflavones are phytoestrogens known as SERMs, or Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators. Clomid is also a SERM. Some people believe that soy isoflavones function in the same way to block estrogen receptors as Clomid.

Researchers have found that soy isoflavones weakly bind to estrogen receptors. This evidence may support the idea that soy isoflavones can work as a natural ovulation inducer like Clomid. But, there has not been sufficient data to safely say that soy isoflavones can or should be used to induce ovulation.

Soy Isoflavones dosage for ovulation induction
In order for soy isoflavones to work in a similar manner as Clomid, they should be taken in a similar manner. Clomid is not taken throughout a woman’s cycle. Instead, it is given for about five days at the start of a woman’s cycle. The standard guidelines for Clomid are to take it either on cycle days 3-7 or 5-9. Most women taking soy isoflavones to induce ovulation take around 150-200 mg a day on cycle day 3 -7 or 5-9. Since there are no scientific studies on the effects of soy isoflavones and ovulation, these are just general guidelines. You should not, however, take this dosage throughout your cycle as it may impede ovulation if taken through your entire cycle.

There is also some data that suggests high levels of soy isoflavones may have damaging effects on the thyroid. If you have a thyroid condition you may want to avoid taking soy isoflavones.

Can soy isoflavones cause infertility?
While there is some evidence that soy isoflavones may work in a similar manner to Clomid, there is also research that suggests that high levels of soy consumption can decrease fertility. This may be because of the way soy isoflavones bind to estrogen receptor cells. Some soy isoflavones may work as an estrogen blocker but others may mimic estrogen. There is not enough research to adequately say how taking soy isoflavones, particularly if taken daily will affect your fertility.

markiza
1. dec 2010

How to Get Pregnant Using Soy Isoflavones

If you are looking for natural ways to induce ovulation, you may want to consider taking soy isoflavone supplements. Many specialists advise that you avoid eating soy or taking soy supplements while trying to conceive. This is because soy isoflavones are a plant-based source of estrogen, and affect a women's menstrual cycle. However, actual studies have been mixed when it comes to the effects of soy on fertility.

Among women struggling to conceive, it has long been anecdotally noted that taking doses of soy isoflavones for a short period of time during the beginning of the menstrual cycle can have a similar effect as clomiphene citrate. Like clomiphene citrate, or "clomid," it is believed that soy isoflavones induce ovulation by tricking the body into producing more estrogen.

Below is a description of how some women to use soy isoflavones to induce ovulation. As always, you should speak with your doctor or healthcare provider before starting any new supplement or dietary change. Please note, this information is not medical advice, which should only be obtained directly from a qualified professional healthcare provider.

1
Buy good quality soy isoflavone supplements. These are sold in most pharmacies and grocery stores, and are typically marketed to help with menopausal symptoms. Most pills contain 40mg of soy isoflavones.

2
The soy isoflavones must be taken at the right time in your menstrual cycle for the proper effect. The ideal day to start is between 3 to 5 days after the start of your menstrual period.

3
Take roughly 80mg of soy isoflavones per day, with food. This should work out to two pill supplements, but you must check the package to determine how much is in each pill. The precise time of day is unimportant, but you should take the supplement at the same time everyday. Many women prefer to take it at night to avoid side effects during the day.

4
Repeat the above for 5 days, taking 80mg worth of supplement each day. Then stop! You should not continue for more than 5 days, as this could have a negative impact on ovulation and actually delay your natural cycle.

5
You may wish to track your fertility using basal body temperature. If you do not ovulate, you may wish to increase the isoflavone dosage.

nemko
1. dec 2010

@soldi a co je prosim dobre na ten spermiogram? mame spemii dost len maju naruseny tvar 😒 😒 😒 niektore

soldi
autor
1. dec 2010

@nemko takze mate zlu morfologiu?

bohuzial, zrovna na morfologiu nic nie je, to je dane geneticky 😒

elllla
1. dec 2010

@markiza WOW 🙂) ja by som to veru tak dobre nenapisala, hehe... su tam zaujimave informacie a je jasne, ze to nie je vseliek a su zeny, na ktore to nemusi posobit... ak to vsak apson jednej dalsej snazilke pomoze, tak sa potesim 🙂
este skusim najst tabulku zienok, co na FF brali soju..

markiza
1. dec 2010

@elllla, je uzasne, ze sa chces delit o informacie, ktore si nasla na ceste za vasim brusko-babatkom 😵
ale mna vazne v prvom momente napadlo, ze ta Elle si ty 😉

markiza
1. dec 2010

btw., tuto diskusiu by ste mali dat aj na emimino 😉

soldi
autor
1. dec 2010

@markiza ahoj, ja uz som taky pokus raz urobila, ale viac menej bez odozvy. tam chodi ovela menej ludi.

markiza
1. dec 2010

@soldi ahoj, tam som si podobnu diskusiu nevsimla 😕
informacie su to iste uzitocne, je na kazdej snazilke ako s nimi nalozi 🙂

soldi
autor
1. dec 2010

@markiza no, nezakladala som ju, ale jedna ceska kocka, tiez sa to volalo nejako so sojou, tak som tam nieco napisala, ale uz sa neozvala. mozem to skusit znova, som zvedava aku odozvu to bude mat tu 🙂

ja som elke za soju vdacna, mne tiez pomohla 😵

nemko
1. dec 2010

@soldi no ved prave 😒

soldi
autor
1. dec 2010

@nemko ked ale mate zlu morfo, tak treba zvysit pocet. takymto sposobom ste na to neskusali ist? 🙂

nemko
1. dec 2010

@soldi pocet mame dobry, vsetko je ok len ta morfologia ☹ ☹