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(Ne)očkovanie na Modrom koníku

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martinjasen
10. jún 2013

Táto téma je o Očkovani. Na rozdiel od mnohých iných, jej hlavným cieľom je dokázať, že sa o tejto ťažkej téme dokážeme rozprávať so vzájomnou úctou k sebe aj k našim názorom.

* Pridajte slobodne svoj názor s dobrým úmyslom a umiernene.
* Čítajte s otvoreným srdcom, príjmite iny názor, rozmyšľajte o ňom.
* Pýtajte sa s dôverou, ak máte otázky k tejto téme.
* Odpovedajte na otázky iných s úprimnou snahou pomôcť, bez snáh manipulovať a presviedčať.
* Nevyjadrujte súd nad niekým za jeho zmyšľanie, alebo správanie.

Kto je presvedčený, že jeho názor je bezchybný a správny, nech radšej do tejto témy nevstupuje. Je pre tých, ktorí hľadajú, zvažujú, pochybujú a vážia si každý názor. Ďakujem

Tema súvisí s článkom: Téma (ne)očkovania na Modrom koníku ( https://www.modrykonik.sk/fotoblog/martinjasen/... )

Diskusia je zavádzajúca
Je možné, že diskusia obsahuje príspevky, ktoré sú zavádzajúce (obsahujú klamlivé informácie alebo úmyselne poupravené fakty) a sú vytvorené za účelom manipulácie alebo šírenia strachu a paniky.
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tin007
27. okt 2017

Studia z Australie o nizkej efektivite chripkovej vakciny http://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807... je viac ako aktualna pre severnu pologulu, pretoze tie iste chripkove virusy, ktore su obsiahnute vo vakcinach v Australii boli odporucane a su obsiahnute vo vakcinach proti chripke, ktore su k dispozicii pre sezonu 2017/18 aj u nas. - This same vaccine composition is being used in the upcoming northern hemisphere for the 2017/18 influenza season.

WHO uz zareagovala (na zmeny v chripkovych kmenoch) tak, ze odporuca zmeny vo vakcinach pre juznu pologulu pre r. 2018. https://ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/influenza...

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adsumus
27. okt 2017

@tin007 to nie je nízka efektivita, naopak vakcína má ochranný účinok a je to najefektívnejší sposob ochrany pred chrípkou, uvádzaju tvoje zdroje. dakujem za info.

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peter952
Odpoveď bola odstránená
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vedvieskto
27. okt 2017

@peter952 dr.sebrell? Vieš podľa koho sa vôbec očkuje?

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peter952
Odpoveď bola odstránená
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lauritka
27. okt 2017

We "lost" our daughter to flu. She survived but major brain damage as a result of acute necrotising encephalopathy. An auto immune disorder following the flu. Check out ANE International or www.aneinternational.org

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bmuller
27. okt 2017

@peter952
@vedvieskto
Aku literaturu treba nastudovat? Aspon nejaku, nie akesi podivne obrazky 😀
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutter_Laboratories Ako sa veci vytrhavaju z kontextu???
Opis na obrazku sa vztahuje na jeden nestastny pripad podavaniania sarze vakciny s aktivnym namiesto inaktivovaneho virusu, ktory mal za nasledok ochorenie tisicov deti. Velmi smutne a nikto nebude popierat, ze sa to nestalo. Ale bol to rok 1955! Takze zjavne sa to nevztahuje na ockovanie ako take, ale na jasne problemy s vakcinou konktretneho vyrobcu!

- In what became known as the Cutter incident, some lots of the Cutter vaccine—despite passing required safety tests—contained live polio virus in what was supposed to be an inactivated-virus vaccine. Cutter withdrew its vaccine from the market on April 27 after vaccine-associated cases were reported.
The mistake produced 120,000 doses of polio vaccine that contained live polio virus. Of children who received the vaccine, 40,000 developed abortive poliomyelitis (a form of the disease that does not involve the central nervous system), 56 developed paralytic poliomyelitis—and of these, five children died from polio.[2] The exposures led to an epidemic of polio in the families and communities of the affected children, resulting in a further 113 people paralyzed and 5 deaths.[3] The director of the microbiology institute lost his job, as did the equivalent of the assistant secretary for health. Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare Oveta Culp Hobby stepped down. Dr Sebrell, the director of the NIH, resigned.[4]

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peter952
Odpoveď bola odstránená
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vedvieskto
27. okt 2017

@peter952 ale ja to mám naštudované😎

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peter952
Odpoveď bola odstránená
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bmuller
27. okt 2017

@peter952 strach vs. pravdepodobnost - choroby ci neziaducich ucinkov... nech si kazdy vyberie...
ale neukazujte tu sugestivne obrazky, ktore hlasaju veci vytrhnute z kontextu. je to vysoko amaterske

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moonlight1210
27. okt 2017

@bmuller nechaj tak. s nim sa nedohadas.
zbytocne maris cas.

cokolvek mu vysvetlis, nasledne zaplacne dalsim zo svojich par obrazkov.

bez porozumenia, bez logiky.

on je ako decko: "uz tam budeme?" (nezalezi, aku das odpoved, vzdy nasleduje ta ista otazka. jedina moznost je "tam" uz prist. a s nim: jedina moznost je, ze suhlasis s nim a jeho názormi.).

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bmuller
27. okt 2017

@moonlight1210 hej, mas pravdu... 😀 vidim, ze je niekto presvedceny o niecom, co povazuje za nevyvratitelne fakty 🙉
v medicine sa da maloco tvrdit na 100%, kazdy organizmus je jedinecny, ma svoje predispozicie a aktualny stav, takze uznavam, ze vakcinacia moze prinasat nejake potencialne rizika...
ale odtial-potial!... niektore antivax dezinformacie ma fakt vedia "namichnut" 😠

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tin007
27. okt 2017

Zaujimave, vedci pisu o nizkej efektivite vakciny, ale tu pritomna odbornicka je mudrejsia ako vsetci autori dokopy a tvrdi, ze to nie je Pravda.

Asi nevie citat v cudzom jazyku a pozorne.

Overall VE was 33%. - Celkova efektivita vakciny bola 33%.
Our interim analysis suggests moderate VE against influenza A(H1)pdm09 and influenza B. However, VE was low against influenza A(H3).
Nasa sucasna analyza ukazuje priemernu ucinnosti proti chripke A(H1)pdm09 a chripka B. Naopak ucinnost proti chripka A(H3) bola nizka.

A toto je este velmi dolezita informacia: The significant genetic diversity of circulating viruses, many of which exhibit amino acid substitutions in key antigenic and glycosylation sites, also makes it difficult to select candidate vaccine viruses with high coverage.

Vyrazna geneticka roznorodost cirkulujucich virusov... robi zlozitym vybrat kandidatov-virusy do vakcin s vysokym pokrytim.

http://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807...

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moonlight1210
27. okt 2017

ake oblubene su tie vykriky do tmy od antivaxerov:
a kedy bola naposledy pandemia?
a kedy bolo naposledy toto a hento?
pred 50timi rokmi? pred 70 rokmi?
ha, vididte? takze to nie je nebezpecne. nemusime sa toho uz teda vôbec nikdy bat.

no to rovnako si mozeme (analogicky) argumentovat:
a kedy bola naposledy v europe velka vojna?
pred 75timi rokmi? tak vidite - vojny sa vobec nemusime bat. sem uz ziadna nikdy nepride.

ma to svoju hlboku carokrasnu antivaxersku logiku. 🙂

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lauritka
27. okt 2017

a propo , tak velmi sklonovaný " Big Pharma biznis " 😀
a opozitní "lekari" "Anti-vaccine doctors are often corporate shills, scaring you about BIG PHARMA, while they rake in the $$$."

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adsumus
28. okt 2017

@lauritka ešte by tam mali pridať vysávače na vzduch a filtre vody, ktoré tu propaguje hlava antivax na slovensku @prevenar. komu nedochádza?

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adsumus
28. okt 2017

čo správa to reklama na výrobky alebo dokonca aj reťazce a ludia kvoli takým nechávaju deti nechránené 😵

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lauritka
28. okt 2017

@adsumus ja uz som tu viackrat davala zdroje ohladne ziskov z jednotlivých odvetví.fakt ze vakciny su v tom najmenej.ale tak to je zbytocne...stale si pojde svoje.niekde som videl aj uzasne vily ake maju celni predstavitelia av.ako Wakelfield a spol...ale to uz on nevidi.Neviem ja tu nepozna nejaku bohatu pediatricku.ktora by akoze tak velmi mala z vakcin profitovat.ty ano? Preco potom velka farma mafia ako tvrdi av vakciny nezrusi a radsej potom budu nakladne liecit ludi ked sa vratia epidemie...

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evittam
28. okt 2017

@lauritka "zdroje"....
V style "americký vedci zistili,ze..."
Ty naozaj veris tym štatistikam a "oficiálnym zdrojom"? 😂😂😂

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evittam
28. okt 2017

Ospravedlnujem sa za odbočenie od temy

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lauritka
28. okt 2017

@evittam normalne statistiky ktore sa daju najst.ved ste sikovni v search na googli.

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lauritka
28. okt 2017

Preco sa ospravedlnujes ty .neodbocujes od temy.Peter tu stale spomina ake super zisky ma farma mafia a to je v poriadku a ze prave kvoli ziskom z tych pekelnych vakcin maju zaplatenych vserkych lekarov a vedcov na svete aby klamali ludi a skodili detom.

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lauritka
28. okt 2017

Here is message several fans received when they messaged her office. Two points here. 1. $$$$$$$$$$$ 2. The multiple questions screen out depressed people, guaranteeing they are "pre-brainwashed" as Jeff Holiday said. Real doctors treat all sick people, not just the wealthiest 0.0001% who promise to adhere to your cult-like beliefs.

Hello

Thank you for your email. Dr. Brogan has an application process for new patients looking to schedule a consultation. Due to a high volume of inquiries, Dr. Brogan is doing her best to personally review all applications within two weeks of receipt. Thank you for your patience.

Please follow the steps below for your consideration.

General Information
Dr. Brogan sees female patients aged 21-65 for in-person appointments. She is not scheduling long distance virtual consultations at this time, however, exceptions can be made for those who are able to travel to the office for the consultation and frequent follow-ups in between phone sessions. Dr. Brogan is not able to work with long distance patients looking to taper medication. If you would like a referral in your area, please visit our website at www.kellybroganmd.com/resources under practitioner referrals.

Appointment Cost
Consultations are $4,497, which includes a two hour consultation and a one hour follow-up. Follow-ups thereafter are $570 for 45 minutes. Dr. Brogan is an out of network provider and most patients submit for reimbursement. The code for the consultation is 90792 if you'd like to check on your plan. Please note that our fees are subject to change and we may not be able to honor the fee quoted above if we receive your application after 30 days of sending this email.

In addition to her book A Mind of Your Own, Dr. Brogan's course Vital Mind Reset is a great resource for those not able to see her. It is a structured program that is essentially the same treatment she uses in her practice and can be done by anyone.

Tests
Dr. Brogan typically orders extensive blood work, which is usually covered by insurance entirely when done through Manhattan Labs. In addition, she may ask you complete a stool and saliva test, which ranges between $100-$400 each, and are not typically eligible for reimbursement from insurance.

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As part of your comprehensive plan, Dr. Brogan may recommend a monthly supplement regimen. Cost of supplements is not included in the session fee and are purchased through an outside vendor.

Application Steps

Step 1
Are you familiar with Dr. Brogan’s blog? Have you read her book, A Mind of Your Own? It is highly recommended that you take some time to read both to fully understand her approach to psychiatric treatment and general wellness. Many of your questions regarding her experience treating specific conditions can be answered there.

Step 2
Please fill out the following questionnaire and email it back to our office. Please do not mail or fax your answers. When answering, please provide sufficient details to help Dr. Brogan understand your health concerns, but also please try to limit the length of your answers as we do receive such a high volume of inquiries. It is helpful if you are able to elaborate on any yes/no answers. We ask that the patient personally fill out this application as it gives us more accurate information, and it allows Dr. Brogan to understand the degree of motivation and commitment each patient has for this treatment. If you are contacting our office on behalf of the patient, we ask that the patient directly reach out to our office to begin this process.

New Patient Questionnaire

1. What is your age?

2. What are you seeking help with? Please provide details.

3. Have you ever been hospitalized for these issues?

4. Are you interested in tapering psychiatric medication?

5. Do you have any fear around tapering your medication?

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7. Please list your past and current medications, including duration of treatment. Please indicate which medications you are currently taking.

8. Are you familiar with Dr. Brogan's views on all pharmaceutical medication, including vaccines and over the counter products? Do you believe that her views are in line with your own?

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10. Do you believe that pharmaceutical medication is necessary in your treatment?

11. Do you have diagnosed medical problems? Please list them.

12. Have you consulted with a functional medicine/holistic provider about these issues?

13. Why are you seeking a holistic approach to your mental health and wellness? Please provide details.

14. Do you plan to continue seeing any conventional doctors while a patient?

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Thank you,
Leela
Office manager

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lauritka
28. okt 2017

Dr. Terry Wahls is one of the lesser-known anti-vaccine quacks. Like all of them, she profits by spreading fear and doubt about vaccines and doctors. Like all of them, she has no publications on vaccines. Like all of them, she is a massive corporate shill, selling *menus* and all sorts of other products to take money from desperate people. Like them all, she feels her "cure" is exempt from science.
http://terrywahls.com/ a oblubene youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kwgkI1RkF0
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vedvieskto
28. okt 2017

@lauritka veď ale Peter je čistý Dunning-Kruger o ňom by mohli prednášky točiť a chodiť ho ukazovať po univerzitách

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aristka
28. okt 2017

@peter952 uz len ty chapes co citas a vies selektovat ,ked nevies cim sa ockuje ,co je virus a ci bakreria a ,ze konske hovienka obsahuju clostridie tetani ....😀

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evittam
28. okt 2017

@lauritka Jasneee, statistiky.....Jedny z najhorsich veci.....😉

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adsumus
28. okt 2017

ked su najhoršie prečo sa nimi obhána antivaxerka na dennej báze dookola?

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peter952
Odpoveď bola odstránená